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Forums - Modelling / Painting |
The painting forum is for the discussion of techniques on the painting, decalling and weathering phases of AFV modelling and the tools and materials used. |
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| Messages | 6908 |
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| Subject: | Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! |  |
| Date: | Jan 1, 2008 |
| From: | Christopher C. Tew | |
Hi, Gary. Some people do know the "actual colors." The Kliment translated book has balanced color photos of original equipment. http://sdkfz7.free.fr/index.htm has photos of original equipment. I'm sure that there are several more if not many more internet sites that have photos of original equipment. I don't know why no one has, apparently, bother to have these pieces color analyzed, but the technology has been avaiable for several years to do this. Your local paint store or Lowe's can do this, maybe not to the exactitude that the auto restoring business requires, but close enough to be brought into "scale effect" likeness. The old AFV-G2 had eyeball accurate color mixes using Floquil paints for the Wehrmacht des Heeres colors based on original equipment in the 1970s. Their Dunkel Gelb mix is nowhere close to the hobby paints we're stuck with, all of which seem to have been based on the Humbrol color, and who knows where that came from. Unless we assume that all preserved equipment is exceptional (though relatively uniform) in its color, or has aged in exactly the same way (even though kept away from weathering by it owners), then we do know what the oriinal colors looked like, and the common hobby paints ain't it.
Sorry, Paul, but I've comapred all the commonly available paints in the US against the colors matched to preserved equipment, and none of them are satisfactory to my eyes in any light. Maybe the low sun angle up north adds enough red to knock out the greenish tint ;-) but down here, the sun only adds more blue which the yellow turns to green, and flourescent and incandescent light doesn't matter enough to get rid of Y.C.'s feeling of puke.
Sure, there was some variation. Even though each German paint manufacturer was using the same standards, no match is ever 100% - if we had the original factory specs, they would undoubtedly say how much variance was allowed. Materiel shortages in the last 9 months or so of the war played havoc with the standards, as did the method of field application. BUT, most late-war AFVs had the based coat, the Dunkel Gelb and later the Primer Rot and Dunkel Grün, factory painted to approved specs. When we do get color analyzed specs, they will reflect the variety of finishes actually applied, and I'll wager that very few if any of those specs result in shades like Tamiya, Humbrol, or ModelMaster Dunkel Gelb. The colors that were extensively applied in the field were the browns and greens and whitewashes, not the base coat.This really shouldn't be an issue.
Let's have fun, or let's get down to the nitty gritty, but let's not pretend that all is hopeless because we can imagine circumstances in which the standards weren't followed. There were standards, and even the exceptions began with them.
Best wishes for the New Year,
CTew |
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 | Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Y.C. Wang - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Christopher C. Tew - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Ted Nichols - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Paul A. Owen - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Ed Spaide - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Y.C. Wang - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Post-Shade it - Hans Haase - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Post-Shade it - Y.C. Wang - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . I Like Hans' Idea - Eric Scurlock - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Richard Diak - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Mike Kirchoff - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Richard Diak - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Gary Cooper - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Gary Cooper - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Mark Horvath - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Nick Darrock - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - rob galassi - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Roy Chow - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . That's it, Roy! Thanks as always! - rob galassi - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Colour perception... - Andrew Herbert - Jan 4, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Colour perception... - Mark Holoboski - Jan 18, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! [IMG] - Dave Murray - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Roy Chow - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Robert Anderson - Jan 3, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! [IMG] - Jeff Nolan - Jan 4, 2008 |
| . . . For what it's worth: recovered StuG IV - Roy Chow - Jan 7, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: For what it's worth: recovered StuG IV - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 8, 2008 |
| . . . . . . The trouble is ... - Bruce Probst - Jan 8, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: The trouble is ... - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 9, 2008 |
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