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Forums - Modelling / Painting |
The painting forum is for the discussion of techniques on the painting, decalling and weathering phases of AFV modelling and the tools and materials used. |
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| Messages | 6805 |
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| Subject: | Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! |  |
| Date: | Jan 2, 2008 |
| From: | Roy Chow | |
Hi Rob: It was the 2002 or 2001 AMPS show where T Jentz discussed German wartime colors. He spoke about his assisting of Bovington restore their Tiger I, the lack of acknowledgement of the 1/3 brown, 2/3 grey camo of pre-1938 German vehicles and finally, the UNIFORMITY of dunkel gelb.
He cited the fact that he had compared about a half dozen extremely well preserved/mint condition pieces of equipment -- stored in pristine conditions and never handled. His conclusion that the paint hues were uniform despite the wide variations in equipment type (meaning they had to be from vastly different manufacturers -- yet with the same paint). I recall his saying among the items examined were a crate of mint Notek blackout lights, the interior of a 2cm Flak barrel case and some other items.
One reason he cited was that the base pigment was a natural ochre color -- some common chemical. (side note: i recall reading an article from a Swedish (?) IPMS site where they examined a cache of pristine/unissued wartime equipment and they came to the same conclusion).
Finally Jentz (in his particular style) went to great lengths to try to convince us NOT to use wartime color photos as any indication of "true" hues given the vagaries of finish and lighting. He then showed us a plastic panel that was painted using a batch of paints that he helped formulate for a Jdpzr 38(t) restoration. He said the owner didn't like the historical rot brun shade so he countered Jentz' advice about that blend. However, Jentz backed the formulations of the dk gelb and dk grun. In the seminar room, the dk gelb had a distinct greenish tinge. Then Jentz took the panel outside and the greenish tinge disappeared in the daylight.
(funny thing was that there were people snapping digital photos of Jentz' 3-tone panel -- the very thing he was preaching against. LOL)
Then speaking w/my sister-in-law, a graphic artist and seeing sites like this:
http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html
... caused me to seriously rethink how I even PERCEIVE color. This frankly makes "Lowe's paint dept" scanning not a viable option. Even if you CAN replicate actual dk gelb, our miniaturization of a large piece of equipment requires much more subtlety in order to make it "look right" -- how do we actually impart certain tones of different lighting conditions? Do we just shoot straight color? Do we remove the greenish tinge? Do we add more brown? Again, replicating a miniature requires much more thinking than just "scale effect"
I've concluded that German dk gelb from the paint manufacturers is only a "best attempt". I find myself using Tamiya Dk gelb but also like a more buff tone -- as an actual vehicle may have appeared in certain lighting conditions. |
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 | Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Y.C. Wang - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Christopher C. Tew - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Ted Nichols - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Paul A. Owen - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Ed Spaide - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Y.C. Wang - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Post-Shade it - Hans Haase - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Post-Shade it - Y.C. Wang - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . I Like Hans' Idea - Eric Scurlock - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Richard Diak - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Mike Kirchoff - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Richard Diak - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Gary Cooper - Dec 31, 2007 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Gary Cooper - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Mark Horvath - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Nick Darrock - Jan 1, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - rob galassi - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Roy Chow - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . That's it, Roy! Thanks as always! - rob galassi - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Colour perception... - Andrew Herbert - Jan 4, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Colour perception... - Mark Holoboski - Jan 18, 2008 |
| . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! [IMG] - Dave Murray - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Roy Chow - Jan 2, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! - Robert Anderson - Jan 3, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Tamiya Dark Yellow is NOT Dunkel Gelb! [IMG] - Jeff Nolan - Jan 4, 2008 |
| . . . For what it's worth: recovered StuG IV - Roy Chow - Jan 7, 2008 |
| . . . . . . Re: For what it's worth: recovered StuG IV - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 8, 2008 |
| . . . . . . The trouble is ... - Bruce Probst - Jan 8, 2008 |
| . . . . . . . . . Re: The trouble is ... - Christopher C. Tew - Jan 9, 2008 |
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