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Forums - News / General

For General modelling or hobby-related topics that are not covered by any other specific forum. Please keep to topics concerning the hobby.
Topics  2987
Messages  22321
 Subject:  What is the Artist's Intention?List thread.  
  
 Date:  Aug 1, 2006
 From:  Tim Streeter 
Dominic,

That's the key question for me: what is the artist's intention? What would be your intention in creating a diorama of a lynching or a massacre?

What was Goya's intention with his Third of May painting? What was Spielberg's intention with "Schindler's List" or "Saving Private Ryan?" What was Hitchcock's intention with "Psycho?" Or Wellman's with "The Ox Bow Incident?"

Or Rob Zombie's "House of 1000 Corpses?"

I don't think the writers and directors of these films intended for people to go out and join the SS or the Rangers, administer "Wild West justice," or become psychotic serial killers.

I don't think Park intends for us to go out and execute Jews, or any minority (a change of uniforms is all it would take for this scene to be set in Bosnia). It's possible there may be one or two sick people who see this diorama and think "right on." But that's our (humanity's) problem, not Park's problem.

If you want to make a diorama of a Russian baby on the bayonet of an SS soldier, more power to you. At this point I'll trust that this project is not designed to encourage similar behavior. I may change my mind once I see it. Or if I got to know you better. But at this point I will assume you, like Goya, Picasso, or Spielberg, have higher intentions--to remind us of the evil of the world so we don't let it happen again.

On the other hand, if you're just building the 3D equivalent of a Rob Zombie bloodbath, I'll probably ponder your level of maturity and shrug. It's a free world, some of it, and you're free to create what you wish.

Which brings me to the "unstated rule."

I think that many of us probably played around with a little modeling blood and gore when we were kids, because that's what little boys tend to get off on, whatever is gross or shocking. If we were 9-year-olds we would probably love Verlinden's defacating soldiers.

But now, as men, the way we refute that boyhood tendancy and placate the women around us is to sterilize our modeling. "Really, honey, I am NOT a warmonger. I just appreciate the technology of the Porsche design." Yes, it's the technology of death, but we do our damnedest to cover that up, sweep it under the rug. Thus we can appreciate German, Japanese, and Italian armor abstractly and forget about the hell these nations put the world through nearly 70 years ago. We can even compartmentalize our feelings about the victors if we have to.

One reason that that model clubs and sites like TL have become a magnet for AFV modelers is that we can share our work with like-minded individuals (rather than with our mothers). But please don't rock the boat by making our brains go where we don't want them to go!

So now when we see a little blood in a diorama or the stark horror of a ruthless execution, many of us are uncomfortable because we've been living in this detached and sanitized world we've constructed around our hobby. Someone has broken the "unspoken rule" and we need to preserve the propriety of being "grown up" modelers. Of course, there are hypocritical exceptions, as one message pointed out earlier about the show in which the Park diorama was censored while others containing violence were accepted. And there are no abject protests when Warriors or Verlinden come out with some skeletons, dead soldiers, or soldiers firing weapons to kill other soldiers.

I believe there is a great deal of difference between hacking up plastic figures and dribbling red paint on them like a 9-year-old would do, and what Park has done. I even bet my mother could see the difference.

Melodramatic? Exaggerated? In what way? It's not a "perfect" diorama but for my money its execution (so to speak) is better than most, and I believe it is certainly worthy of the subject matter. I would be proud to do as well.

Regarding Hitler and the staff car: perfectly acceptable to me as a modeling subject. If this is a car that Hitler would have ridden in, then it makes sense to include the rat. I'll trust that the modeler has not built this as some sort of icon of worship.

Is it "too soon" to model these topics? No. Not any more than it was too soon to write "Slaughterhouse Five" or "Sophie's Choice." "All Quiet on the Western Front" was published only 11 years after WWI. And Ernie Pyle was sending home poignant, heart-rending dispatches from the front while the war was blazing around him.

While this is a hobby for most of us, for some it is more, and to be dismissive of their work is to dismiss the work of any artist in any medium who dares to grasp its subject matter in its totality.

Tim
 
Thread Listing 
  Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Paul A. Owen - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Kevin A. Moore - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . in the Gallery- in the gutter - Christopher benjamin - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: in the Gallery- in the gutter - Rick Snaauw - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: in the Gallery- in the gutter-Rick - Mike Bedard - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Paul A. Owen - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Christopher R. Evans - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Debatable Issue - Mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Debatable Issue - michael - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Debatable Issue - Mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Very appropriate - michael - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Very appropriate - well said - Danny Egan - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Brian Bocchino - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - david budd - Jul 31, 2006
. . . How the East views the Holocaust? - Dominic Miele - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: How the East views the Holocaust? - Roderick Lenz - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: How the East views the Holocaust? - david budd - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: How the East views the Holocaust? - Phil Choi - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Asian Holocaust - Dominic Miele - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Right and Wrong... - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gore and modelling - Dominic Miele - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Gore and modelling - Alex Hill - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Gore and modelling - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Verlinden Shoe-shine Dio - Dominic Miele - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Verlinden Shoe-shine Dio - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Here's the direct link to the Verlinden thing - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . That is dumb - Dominic Miele - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: That is dumb - Brian Bocchino - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . What is the Artist's Intention? - Tim Streeter - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Point taken - Dominic Miele - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Point taken - Tim Streeter - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Point taken - Dominic Miele - Aug 4, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Gore and modelling-Dominic - Mike Bedard - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . How do you know they're Jews? - Kevin Johnson - Aug 9, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Did you even look at the dio closely? - R.C. Hill - Aug 9, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Isn't that strange. - Kevin Johnson - Aug 14, 2006
. . . ...what will be will be... - Glenn Bartolotti - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Healthy - Mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . For Comparison [IMG] - Tim Streeter - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: For Comparison - david budd - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: For Comparison - Mike Tittel - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Apples and Oranges - Dominic Miele - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery [IMG] - Tim Streeter - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Scott Taylor - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery-Tim - Mike Bedard - Jul 31, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Picasso's "Guernica" - Paul A. Owen - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Picasso's "Guernica" - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - rajendra - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Jerry Plettenberg - Jul 31, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Dave Clark - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Roy Chow - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Dave Clark - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Same discussion has been heard before - Jari Lievonen - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - John Murcutt - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - rob galassi - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - jan slany - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Alexandre - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Kevin Moore - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Gary Cooper - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Almost every Nation has Blood on their Fingers! - Frank Forster - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Almost every Nation has Blood on their Fingers! - Sean Lynch - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Almost every Nation has Blood on their Fingers! - Frank Forster - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Almost every Nation has Blood on their Fingers! - Alex Hill - Aug 1, 2006
. . . I'm Curious.... - Tim Streeter - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Too right... - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: I'm Curious.... - Mike Tittel - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: I'm Curious.... - Alex Hill - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Shawn Godwin - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Mark Rethoret - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Reaching for an idea.... - Kip Rudge - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast between threads - Brian Bocchino - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast between threads - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast between threads - Alex Borsboom - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast between threads - Andrew Herbert - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . If it was a Rape scene what would be the reaction? - Michael Wawrow - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: If it was a Rape scene what would be the reaction? - Alex Hill - Aug 1, 2006
. . . Hypocrisy! - Steve - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - R.C. Hill - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - Steve - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . A rose by any other ................. - Steve Campbell - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hi Steve - Paul A. Owen - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hi Steve - Steve - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hi Steve - Paul A. Owen - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Look at the address!! - Andrew Herbert - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - R.C. Hill - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - Brian Bocchino - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - Steve - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - Brian Bocchino - Aug 2, 2006
. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hypocrisy! - Frank Forster - Aug 2, 2006
. . . Re: Oh boy... - Paul A. Owen - Aug 1, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Oh boy... - Andrew Herbert - Aug 2, 2006
. . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Charles Reading - Aug 10, 2006
. . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Mark Austen - Aug 15, 2006
. . . . . . . . . Re: Interesting contrast .. in the Gallery - Philippe - Aug 15, 2006
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