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Forums - Research / WW2 |
This WW2 forum is intended for asking and discussing reference or historical related issues pertaining to WW2 (1939-1945) subjects. |
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| Subject: | Re: Markings for 4/CLY Cromwells |  |
| Date: | Aug 30, 2003 |
| From: | Mike Canaday | |
> I'm struggling a little with the British armour marking system....
Hmm, who isn't. I guess they accomplished their goal: confuse anyone who is
trying to figure it out!
> 4/CLY were one of the armoured regiments in 22nd Armoured Brigade, with 1
and 5 RTR. I'm guessing that they would be considered the junior regiment,
and therefore the tactical squadron markings would have been blue?
They were junior to the two RTR battalions. The 4th CLY carried the 53 AoS
and blue marks until disbanded in July 1944.
> Can anyone clearly explain the British regimental seniority system? Is it
based on when the regiment was founded, or the number of the regiment
compared to the others?
More than that. The type of regiment, Guards, cavalry, infantry, etc played
into the mix as well. As near as I can tell, as far as the armoured
brigades went, this is the order of precedence:
Household Cavalry
Dragoon Guards
Cavalry of the line
RTR
Yeomanry
Territorial Army RTR
RAC units (converted infantry which used their original infantry precedence)
For instance: the 4th Armoured Brigade,
122 = Scots Greys
123 = 3rd CLY
124 = 44th RTR
consisting of the Scots Greys (regular or line cavalry, [technically not
really cavalry but Dragoons a cost cutting distinction from the 1700's that
lead to the creation of the Dragoon Guard regiments]), 3rd CLY (Yeomanry)
and 44th RTR (Territorial Army RTR).
As opposed to the 22nd Armoured Brigade:
1st RTR = 51
5th RTR = 52
4th CLY = 53
If one did not know that the 44th was a Territorial unit the system would
seem inconsistent.
After the 4th was amalgamated with the 3rd CLY the 22nd AB was composed of:
5th Dragoon Guards = 51
1st RTR = 52
5th RTR = 53
If the order of precedence was being correctly followed the tanks would all
have to have been renumbered
The 33rd did eventually renumber their tanks when the 148th RAC was
disbanded and the East Riding Yeomanry joined the unit. Initially the East
Riding tanks carried the 175 of the 148th, whose tanks they inherited, later
when the 51,52,53 series was used, they used 52, as they were junior to the
Northamptonshire Yeomanry
The Motor regiment always was junior because it filled the junior job, i.e.
infantry. Leading to an odd set up in the 5th Guards Armoured Brigade:
51 = 2nd (Armd) Battalion Grenadier Guards
52 = 1nd (Armd) Battalion Coldstream Guards
53 = 2nd (Armd) Battalion Irish Guards
54 = 1st (Motor) Battalion Grenadier Guards
where a senior battalion was junior to its own 2nd battalion because it was
the infantry battalion.
A good reference for this is "The British Soldier", by Jean Bouchery
> Thanks if anyone can help
Hope it was a help, it may have made it worse.
Mike Canaday |
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